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![](\"http://www.stud.u-szeged.hu/Kriston.Andras/images/s3/DCkicsi.jpg\")
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#103
ez nemtudom miert szabvany athagas
a szabvanyban annyi van hogy az agp xy erossegu aramot tud leadni, azert hogy ezt ne lepjek at a gyartok egy kulso szinten szabvanyos csatlakozasu aramforrast vesznek igenybe.
szerintem egy agp szabvanyban sincs meghatarozva hogy a videokartya xy-w nal tobbet nem fogyaszthat.
igy legalabb nincs az a gubanc mint a geforcek megjelenesekor volt, hogy sok regebbi alaplappal nem mentek az akkoriban nagynak szamito fogyasztasuk miatt. -
#102
mar van ketto ,ennel tobb nem lesz ,csak nagyobbak.
De ne ennel a pontnal ragadj le.Minek a szabvany ha egyszer keresztbe kasul athagjuk oket? -
#101
mondjuk vigyazz nehogy meg 1 vinyot vegyel mert akkor megint uj drot kell -
#100
nekemmeg kb 4 eve szabadon log a floppy madzag, most legalabb be tudtam dugni :D -
#99
de azok nem szabadon lognak.Nalam mindennek megvan a maga helye. -
#98
ha van eleg madzag nem mindegy hogy uresen log vagy radugod valahova? -
#97
jobbnak nem jobb csak nem szeretnem hogy eljojjon az a korszak amikor mar a halokartyara is +tapcsati kellene.Miert nem a vid chip gyartok alkalmazkodnak az agp szabvanyhoz?Van ott egy bizonyos amper amit max ki lehet szedni oszt kezdjenek azzal valamit.Van mar eleg madzag a hazban. -
#96
vegulis a trio3d is jobb mint az fx 9700 v5 mert azon sincs tapkabel. sot az isas trident 8900 is jobb mert oda meg agp busz sem kell a gepre, de meg pci sem -
Zsoltee_a_bator #95 gf3- on sincs tapkabel akkor az is jobb mint az fx -
Zsoltee_a_bator #94 minden alaplaphoz erdemes feltenni az alaplapi drivereket, nem csak a via-hoz de mindegy.. -
Borg #91 Hát én sem nyugalmi állapotra irtam a 45W-ot az R300ra:)) -
#90
en ugylattam hogy ez a 3.5 w nyugalmi allapotban ennyi mondjuk windows desktopnal, ha nem mozgatod az ablakokat :D -
budasp #89 Bocsi, offtopic:
MAINRULER írta: "Annak idején kényszerűségből kellett intel alaplapot VIA-ra cserélnem, de közel 50%-nyit visszafogott a teljesítményen, egy gagyi szar, soha nem vennék VIA mainboard-ot."
A régebbi VIA-s alaplapok tényleg lassúak voltak, de ez a mostaniakra már nem igaz, és a régieken is lehetett/lehet segíteni egy okos kis progival.
Nekem volt régen és most is van VIA-s lapom.
Várjuk az S3-at!:) -
#87
Na, egy szép zsíros előzetes az S3-tól:
Introduction
S3: From Virge to Savage 2000
Since its inception, the landscape of the 3D graphics market on the desktop has changed significantly. Where there were once dozens of players competing for market share (including the grand daddy of them all, Intel), the industry has now whittled down to a handful of players. The companies that are largely credited for being at the forefront of 3D graphics’ inception, 3dfx and Rendition, are no longer even in business!
The company we’re discussing today, S3, was one of the larger companies in 3D graphics, although early on many enthusiasts jokingly referred to their Virge line of products as 3D graphics decelerators.
Realizing this, S3 sought to reinvent themselves by producing an all new graphics core, Savage3D, which was introduced in mid ‘98. With Savage3D, S3 wasn’t shooting for the high end of the market, instead they were going for the mainstream consumer. Not everyone had the cash to shell out for a Voodoo2 graphics accelerator, and S3 was glad to service these consumers. In addition, S3 did not forget its OEM roots it had depended on for so long with Savage 3D. S3 made sure that Savage3D had the right combination of features and price to make these customers happy as well. Overall Savage3D was a limited success in that it reestablished the company as more than just a 2D player with a few 3D buzzwords mixed in for OEMs, but Savage3D came to market later than its competitors and as a result a lot of S3’s previous customers were drawn to NVIDIA’s RIVA 128/TNT lines.
Following Savage3D (and its more performance-oriented “Supercharged” variant), S3 came back with Savage4. Savage4 was essentially a Savage3D chip with an extra texture unit, and ultimately achieved higher clock frequencies (and up to 32MB memory) with the Savage4 Pro. The real groundbreaking technology in Savage4 however, was its support for S3’s texture compression technology, S3TC. S3TC allowed for high resolution textures that normally would have been hundreds of megabytes down to a few dozen megabytes.
As a result, Savage4 cards actually ran games such as Unreal Tournament faster with S3TC enabled than with default textures being used. Unfortunately for S3, Savage4 and its follow up variants just didn’t catch on with consumers or OEMs, who favored 3dfx’s Voodoo3 and NVIDIA’s TNT2/TNT2 Ultra, even though it was priced lower than the competition. S3 continued to lose share to its competitors.
Then, in late 1999 S3 launched its Savage 2000 core. The company was shooting for fill rate figures that were twice that of anything else that was currently available on the market, and Savage 2000 offered hardware transformation and lighting (T&L). Finally S3 would be a player at the high end of the market.
Savage 2000 to DeltaChrome
Too little, too late
Of course, we all know by now that history didn’t end up the way S3 had envisioned it. Poor yields at the 175MHz clock frequency S3 was shooting for resulted in a chip that ultimately shipped at 125MHz (nearly 30% lower than the product that was initially announced) and shipped later than it’s biggest rival: NVIDIA’s GeForce 256, which supported many of the same features. But what really killed Savage 2000 was its poor drivers and lack of hardware T&L.
S3 promised to correct this with a driver release that ultimately never came, instead S3 became SONICblue; while the graphics division of the company (S3 Graphics) is jointly owned by both S3 and VIA Technologies. S3 Graphics has stayed out of the desktop graphics segment, focusing instead on mobile and powering the graphics behind VIA’s integrated chipsets. To date S3 Graphics has released the SuperSavage, ProSavage, and SavageXP for the mobile segment.
DeltaChrome is born
Now S3 Graphics is set to release its first desktop graphics chip, DeltaChrome, along with its companion chip for the mobile segment, AlphaChrome. Both of these graphics cores list 2.0+ pixel and vertex shaders among their long list of features, making them bona fide DirectX 9.0 cards.
Internally codenamed “Columbia”, DeltaChrome and AlphaChrome have been in development at S3 Graphics for the past two years. Actually, we’re not quite sure if that directly applies to DeltaChrome, as S3 executives confirmed that the mobile part actually came first. S3 Graphics has always wanted to get back into the desktop space, and they’ve decided that now would be the best time to do so.
With NVIDIA’s current weakness at the high end, this certainly makes sense from a strategic point of view. Like us, S3 probably didn’t envision ATI coming out of nowhere to claim the graphics throne from NVIDIA.
In any case, this means that DeltaChrome’s roots lie in mobile, unlike most contemporary graphics cores which start life in the desktop segment before that technology is scaled down to mobile. As a result, DeltaChrome sports a die size that is considerably smaller than other DirectX 9 cores (S3 wouldn’t give us an exact figure, but they claimed it will be nearly twice as small as RADEON 9700) as well as boasting lower power consumption.
It remains to be seen if DeltaChrome will ship with the frequency scaling found on the mobile chip (which will also be present in GeForce FX), but it’s a bit refreshing to see a DirectX 9 graphics card that doesn’t need an external power source. This is due in part, to DeltaChrome’s 0.13-micron manufacturing process and low transistor count.
Architecture Overview
DeltaChrome will be built using TSMC’s 0.13-micron manufacturing process. This makes it the second DirectX 9 part to be announced at 0.13-micron, the other of course being NVIDIA’s GeForce FX. In terms of core complexity however, DeltaChrome is dramatically different than the other DirectX 9 accelerators that have been announced.
While both RADEON 9700 and GeForce FX contain over 100 million transistors, S3 executives state that DeltaChrome will contain just over half the 125 million transistors contained within NVIDIA’s GeForce FX. S3 wants to keep the exact number confidential, but if we’re looking at 80-90 million transistors, that figure would be significantly less than the other 8-pixel pipeline architectures that have been announced. S3 also wanted to make it clear that chip complexity doesn’t revolve completely around transistor count. The number of gates is also very important, although S3 didn’t want to disclose the gate count within DeltaChrome.
Clock frequencies
Naturally, with so few transistors within a 0.13-micron core, you’d expect the DeltaChrome to boast breakthrough clock frequencies. However, S3 is currently only shooting for 300MHz for DeltaChrome. In comparison, RADEON 9700 PRO is shipping today at 325MHz (and with a 110 million, 0.15-micron manufacturing process), while NVIDIA is targeting 500MHz for its high-end variant of the GeForce FX.
With GeForce FX also built off TSMC’s 0.13-micron process and a higher transistor count, we assumed beforehand that DeltaChrome would posses even higher clock frequencies. While we’re sure that there is some variation in TSMC’s manufacturing process (Matrox Parhelia being a good real world example of this), we still assumed DeltaChrome’s clock frequency would be a little higher than 300MHz, after all ATI is already at 325MHz, and they’re at 0.15-micron.
When we questioned S3 about this they stated that they’ve only tested DeltaChrome at 300MHz, but they’re hoping that the final part will be clocked higher. They’re hoping to get good yields on chips as much as 30% faster than the 300MHz goal, with a lower end part(s) shipping somewhere in the 200-240MHz clock frequency range. They’re ultimately planning to release multiple DeltaChrome products in much the same way they launched Savage3D and Savage4 (which eventually ended up with three variants) at multiple clock frequencies.
Again, the specifics of everything aren’t written in stone, as final silicon doesn’t exist yet. But with the 300MHz core clock frequency that is currently planned, DeltaChrome will boast a fill rate of 2.4Gigapixels/second, just shy of RADEON 9700 PRO’s 2.6Gigapixels/sec.
In terms of the memory subsystem, S3 confirmed that DeltaChrome would utilize conventional DDR SDRAM, just like RADEON 9700. The memory interface itself will be 128-bits wide, with peak memory bandwidth topping out at 11GB/sec. Like GeForce3/4, S3 will be utilizing four 64-bit memory controllers to access data, for maximum efficiency. At 11.2GB/sec, this puts DeltaChrome just between the RADEON 9700 (17.6-19.2GB/sec) and RADEON 9500 (8.8GB/sec) series of graphics cards.
Pixel/Vertex Engines and Shaders
8-Pixel Pipelines
S3 has chosen the “V8” moniker to describe the 8-pixel pipeline architecture of DeltaChrome. Like RADEON 9700 PRO and GeForce FX, S3 has implemented eight pixel pipelines in DeltaChrome, with one texture unit per pipe. Like the other DirectX 9 accelerators on the market, DeltaChrome will be capable of processing up to 16 textures per pass.
The geometry engine is equally capable of pumping out triangles, like RADEON 9700, DeltaChrome features four vertex shaders, although we weren’t given a figure for the chips’ transform rate.
As we’ve also come to expect from a DX9 graphics accelerator, DeltaChrome supports floating point data formats, allowing for increased levels of precision. We’ve spoken many times before on the benefits of going from integer-based to floating point data formats, so we won’t go into detail on that here, but essentially this will allow DeltaChrome to perform all kinds of complicated math calculations that wouldn’t have been previously possible with older graphics accelerators.
Breaking down the pixel and vertex engines on DeltaChrome a bit further, we see that the vertex precision is 128-bit (32-bit floating point format) while DeltaChrome supports 96-bit pixel precision (24-bit floating point format), just like RADEON 9700 and unlike GeForce FX, which offers 32-bit floating point format support in both. NVIDIA has claimed that they believe this should theoretically give them a performance advantage in both 64-bit and 128-bit color modes, although we’ll have to wait and see how this plays out when software applications that boast these features begin to appear.
2.0+ vertex shaders
Like NVIDIA with GeForce FX, S3 is proud to boast that DeltaChrome’s pixel and vertex shaders go beyond Microsoft’s specifications called for in DirectX 9. While DX9 2.0 vertex shaders are limited to a maximum of 1,024 instructions, both GeForce FX and DeltaChrome support up to 65,536. The number of temporary registers and max loops also goes beyond the specifications set forth by Microsoft.
DirectX 9 R300 NV30 Columbia
Vertex Shaders 2.0 2.0 2.0+ 2.0+
Max Instructions 1024 1024 65536 65536
Temporary Registers 12 12 16 16
Max Loops 4 4 256 256
2.0+ pixel shaders
S3’s pixel shader instructions also go beyond DX9, although the specs don’t quite match GeForce FX. S3 doubles the maximum number of color instructions supported to 128 and supports additional features such as programmable per pixel gamma correction, a programmable depth shader, programmable table filtering, and a programmable video shader. S3 also adds a few proprietary pixel shading instructions for post-processing capabilities like iDCT, adaptive filtering, deblocking, and deinterlacing.
DirectX 9 R300 NV30 Columbia
Pixel Shaders 2.0 2.0 2.0+ 2.0+
Max Color Instructions 64 64 1024 128
Max Temp Storage 12 12 64 N/A
Finally, DeltaChrome’s pixel shaders feature bi-directional Z and color buffers. Standard DirectX 9 pixel shaders utilize unidirectional color and Z buffers. This allows the color and Z buffers to send or receive data from the pixel shaders.
Occlusion Culling/Dual Display, HDTV, etc.
Deferred Rendering
Of course, having all the memory bandwidth in the world does nothing if that bandwidth is wasted on unnecessary data. Matrox’s Parhelia 512 is a perfect example. On paper Parhelia offers an astounding 20.8GB/sec of bandwidth to the graphics processor, that’s more than any other graphics accelerator on the market. Yet, in high-resolution scenarios where this bandwidth is needed the most, Parhelia falls short of NVIDIA’s GeForce4 Ti 4600, which is limited to 10.4GB/sec (half of what Parhelia offers).
This is due in part, because the Matrox Parhelia lacks occlusion-culling technology. While ATI has depended on its HYPERZ and NVIDIA has had its own culling technology since GeForce3, Parhelia has nothing, essentially wasting much of its memory bandwidth.
For DeltaChrome, S3 has implemented its own occlusion technology, first and foremost would be its Hierarchical Z. Hierarchical Z essentially splits the Z-buffer into blocks of pixels, then determines if those blocks will be visible on the final display or not. If the block of pixels is hidden, the block is discarded and moves on to the next block, increasing efficiency.
While this will certainly improve DeltaChrome’s performance in high-resolution and/or anti-aliasing environments, it appears that DeltaChrome lacks some of the compression technologies that have found their way into NVIDIA and ATI products such as color compression and Z compression. Fortunately DeltaChrome does support technologies such as Fast Z-Clear, Alpha, and RGB Clear. This saves time and conserves memory bandwidth.
PicturePerfect
PicturePerfect technology refers to the anti-aliasing techniques used by DeltaChrome in both 2D and 3D modes. There really isn’t much new to say as far as 2D text is concerned, as far as we can tell from S3 documents, RADEON 9700 already accomplishes much of the same tasks today, and S3 is a little vague regarding its 3D anti-aliasing implementation, but here’s what we can tell you so far.
Like other RADEON 9700 and GeForce series, DeltaChrome utilizes multi-sampling. We’re not certain if S3 goes so far as to offer programmable jittered multi-sampling like ATI, but we do know that modes of 2, 4, and 6 samples per pixel are supported (matching the basic specs of 9700). For anisotropic filtering, we don’t know if bilinear or trilinear samples are used. But we do know that modes as high as 16x will be supported, again matching RADEON 9700’s specs.
DuoView
As it sounds, DeltaChrome supports dual displays via its DuoView technology. But what really separates it from all other graphics architectures is that it natively supports outputting to your HDTV thanks to its Hi-Def HDTV encoder. This gives S3 quite an edge over the competition: could you imagine outputting straight from your PC or laptop straight to your HDTV? With DeltaChrome, you can!
Resolutions of 480p, 720p, 1080i, and 1080p are supported via a component (YPbPr) output, while 480i is supported via standard S-Video/Composite output. DeltaChrome will offer full range RGB to YUV color space conversion with hue, saturation, and contrast adjustment.
Chromotion Programmable Video engine
Like the other DirectX 9 accelerators that have been announced, DeltaChrome uses its pixel shaders to clean up streaming Internet video signals (such as webcasts) as well as processing MPEG-2/4, Windows Media 8/9, and other video standards. Nothing really new here, but it’s a cool feature for those of you who do a lot of video editing, or those of you who would like to clean up some of your vid caps.
Pricing and Availability
Availability
By now you’re probably wondering how much DeltaChrome will cost and when it will be available. To answer the latter question, S3 stated that they’re shooting for retail availability at the end of Q2. That’s right, the end of Q2. That means you may not see DeltaChrome on store shelves for as long as five months from now.
In the graphics world, five months is an eternity, so we’re hoping that S3 can push up DeltaChrome’s scheduled release a bit more. RADEON 9700 essentially supports everything DeltaChrome does, in some cases falling short while in others going a step beyond DeltaChrome, and is available today. NVIDIA’s GeForce FX will also be out on the market well before DeltaChrome.
If S3 sticks to its current schedule, not only will RADEON 9700 and GeForce FX be obtainable on the market, but ATI’s successor will probably be available as well, and it’s very likely that NVIDIA’s RADEON 9500 competitor, NV31, will also be out on store shelves. This will make life very tough on DeltaChrome, as video card manufacturers here in the US will likely be hesitant to adopt it, and even if they do there’s no guarantee that it will be a sales success. Many consumers still remember the Savage 2000 debacle three years ago and S3’s inconsistent driver support. We’re hoping that S3 is taking the extra time to polish DeltaChrome as much as possible, the last thing they should do is release another product with poor drivers.
Pricing/Board variants
In terms of pricing, we can’t get too specific, as DeltaChrome is many months away from release. But S3 has confirmed that they will undercut prices on ATI and NVIDIA’s equivalent product and that there will be multiple DeltaChrome variants upon release. In particular, S3 currently plans to release two 8-pixel pipeline products, with the only difference between the two cards being clock speeds. As we stated previously they’re currently planning to produce a 200-240MHz variant, as well as a 300MHz model on the higher end. But ultimately they’re shooting for a 300MHz+ product if the yields are there. On the very low end S3 is planning a 4-pixel pipeline product that will also ship in the 200-240MHz clock speed range. This is essentially the same strategy ATI has employed with their RADEON 9500/9700 series.
Based on DeltaChrome’s fundamental architecture, we don’t see any reason why S3 won’t be able to live up to these claims, as their product contains significantly fewer transistors than the ATI/NVIDIA equivalent, and boasts a smaller die size. When you factor in the 0.13-micron manufacturing process (on 12” wafers we’re told), DeltaChrome should certainly be cheaper for S3 to produce.
Conclusion
As interesting as DeltaChrome is, we can’t help but wonder how well it will do in the American market when it’s released. With NVIDIA dropping the ball last fall, the window of opportunity for S3 is now, not four or five months from now. ATI cashed in on this with RADEON 9500 and RADEON 9700, and S3 would have an easier shot at doing the same if DeltaChrome were ready for mass production today, even if the final clock speed is 300MHz.
Due to architecture differences S3 will still be able to maintain a price advantage over ATI and NVIDIA, but by the time DeltaChrome ships that advantage may not be as significant. Just as it makes no sense to pay $180 for RADEON 9500 when RADEON 9500 PRO is currently priced at $200 (we’re quoting list prices), we wouldn’t be surprised to see consumers willing to pay an extra $30 or $40 to purchase a vanilla RADEON 9700 over DeltaChrome. Of course, we’re assuming that RADEON 9700’s successor, R350, will be out on the market by the time DeltaChrome is released (causing RADEON 9700 prices to plummet), which may or may not end up holding true.
We can also tell you that S3 has plans for two additional products following DeltaChrome. The first, DeltaChrome 2, will be based on essentially the same architecture, the only differences being that it will run at even higher clock frequencies and support DDR-II memory.
Even further down the pipe is S3’s next generation product, internally codenamed “Destination Films”. This product will support next generation pixel and vertex shaders, and offer considerably more performance than DeltaChrome. We’re really looking forward to this product, as it has been built from the ground up for the desktop market. Lets face it, DeltaChrome was initially conceived for the mobile market, and it many places, it shows. How many desktop products do you know of that support hardware-assisted display rotation after all? While this is a great feature for Tablet PCs, you won’t see this taken advantage of in any conventional PC applications.
In any case, it’s always good to see another player entering the desktop graphics segment, as increased competition is always a good thing for consumers. STMicro shocked everyone a few years back with Kyro II, and NVIDIA responded with price cuts and multiple GeForce2 MX variants to compete. If S3 is able to deliver an NV31/RADEON 9500 killer with DeltaChrome, S3 could make a very dramatic comeback later this year. It’s too bad we’ll have to wait a few months to find out. -
#86
A Supergamezen is olvasható új hírrel kapcsolatban találtam egy érdekes reagálást (ne mondja senki, hogy csak a jót nézem):
"If someone from S3 actually said this, then whoever said it (and I have an idea who it is) is smoking crack. I think DeltaChrome will have reasonably good performance, but I'm doubtful it will beat the 9700 Pro or NV30. -Nameless S3 peon"
Hmmm... -
#85
Majd meglátjuk... :-) -
[Walaki]D`Lair #84 Akkor használj savage 4-et, meg Pentium I-et....Azoknak elég a 135W-os táp is.... -
Borg #83 3.5W-ot egy ventillátor megeszik, szal elég nagy ökörség:) -
#82
Hahahahaha!!
Elnézést -ne vedd személyeskedésnek-, de ez egyszerűen kacagtató! Amikor lentebb írtátok, hogy csak passzív hűtés van rajta, akkor azt hittem, hogy valaki még észnél van, ha már az Nvidia így elszállt (szó szerint! Ekkora ventivel... :D). De ez egy kicsit váratlanul ért, mindenesetre jót derültem rajta.
Ha a legmegfelelőbb szót kéne megkeresnem a Radeon9700 és a GeforceFX által képviselt írányvonalra, akkor talán a szánalmas lenne a legjobb választás... ;-)
45W...jesszusom...
Most olvastam egyébként, hogy alapkövetelményként az FX minimum egy 360W-os tápot igényel, az alatt lehet, hogy el se indul a gép. :D
Egyszerűen nem értem, miért nem veszik észre, hogy ez milyen nevetséges! Azért nem mindegy, hogy 3.5W (Ha igaz. Ezt mindig hozzáteszem!) vagy 45W... -
[Walaki]D`Lair #80 Miért nem vagy kibékülve? -
[Walaki]D`Lair #78 Pedig a GF3 hűtője kurva halk....(szar is a gyári...) -
Borg #77 Mért, mi az ami neked annyit eszik a gépedben? RAID clustered van vagy mi?:) -
Borg #75 De ezen nincs venti:)
Ennek ellenére a tendencián valszeg sokat nem lehet segiteni, mert az egyre nagyobb teljesitmény megkövetel ilyen dolgokat, szal békülj ki a +táppal szerintem:) -
Borg #72 Pedig neked a sapphire 9700asa jó lenne, a vizhűtésedhez, mert azt eleve passziv hűtéssel látták csak el:) egy borda és más semmi.
A 9700 esetében meg a +tápcsatival is max 45W körül vesz fel a kártya, a sima gef4 is 40 körül van szal, nem nagy gáz. Csak egy külön molex kell neki, ennyi. -
[Walaki]D`Lair #71 a 9700Pro-n (alapjaiban véve) ugyanolyan hűtő van mint egy Gef3 Ti200-ason...... -
#70
leszogezem hogy vitatkozni nem fogok senkivel ,de engem is roppantul zavar hogy kulon tap kell neki ,az uj fx eseteben pedig mindez megfejelve egy iszonyat hutessel. Ez szamomra is marha nagy visszafejlodes.Nem is fogok ilyen kartyeszt venni az tuti ,de radeon 9700pro t se!!!Mi lesz meg ezutan?400V os csatlakozo? -
#69
Engem nem zavarna, ha az új chip 80 Wattot zabálna, ha külön tápegység és 3 slotot elfoglaló hűtés kellene neki, csak produkáljon végre valamit. Az új driverekben nem bízok, hiszen ha megdupláznák a programozók számát, még akkor is csak ketten lennének 
.
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#68
Még egy cikk, kicsit más forrásból:
Miután a VIA "technológiai testvéreként" számon tartott S3 Graphics 2002 decemberében bejelentette új, DeltaChrome fantázianevű grafikuschip-családját, pár napja bemutatták a családhoz tartozó notebookokba szánt grafikus chipet. A DeltaChrome X9m elsőként támogatja a notebook grafikus chipjei közül a DirectX 9 3D-s effektusokat és alacsony fogyasztásához (áramfelvételéhez) nagy teljesítmény párosul.
A DeltaChrome X9m-ben található DeltaChrome-V8T grafikus mag 8 renderelő pipeline-nal, 128 bites memóriaelérési sávszélességgel, egy Advanced Deferred Rendering névre keresztelt sávszélesség-kímélő eljárással rendelkezik. A maximális fillrate 2,4 Gigapixel másodpercenként. A chipben található programozható Pixel és Vertex Shader (mindkettő támogatja a 2.0-ás specifikációkat) az S3 Graphics szerint megfelel a DirectX 9 követelményeinek, sőt egyes vonatkozásaikban túl is mutat rajta. A hardveres Displacement Mappinget ugyanakkor nem integrálták a chipbe, mivel az S3, hasonlóan az nVidiához nem tartja fontosnak. A DeltaChrome-ban debütál még a PicturePerfect Full-Screen-Anti-Aliasing funkció, de nem kell természetesen lemondanunk a több képernyő támogatásáról, a HDTV-felbontásokat is támogató tv-kimenetről, a hardveresen gyorsított DVD-lejátszásról, a pixeladaptált De-Interlacing funkcióról, a programozható videóskálázásról és a shaderek által támogatott valós idejű videofilterről.
A notebook miatt került be a chipbe az integrált, hardveres támogatású képforgatási funkció. A DeltaChrome X9m-et 0,13 micronos gyártási technológiával készítik majd, a magfeszültség 0,9 Volt lesz. Mindemellett lehetőségünk lesz arra, hogy szoftveresen (a PowerWise program segítségével) szabályozzuk az feszültséget és a frekvenciát. A chipbe integrált áramspóroló technikának köszönhetően a kártya fogyasztása mindössze 0,5 Watt.
DeltaChrome M128T, illetve DeltaChrome M64+T névre hallgat a chip két integrált memóriájú változata. A DeltaChrome M128 maximálisan 256 MB-nyi memóriát lesz képes kezelni a Flip-Chip-Multi-Package-Module (FC-MPM) technika használata mellett, míg a DeltaChrome 64+ a ráintegrált memórián kívül további 256 MB-nyi memóriát használhat majd. Kérdéses, hogy az új chipek gyártása megindul-e 2003 első negyedévében, illetve hogy milyen mag és memória órajelen fognak futni az új modellek. Az asztali gépekbe szánt első chipek 2003 második negyedévében kerülnek le a gyártósorokról és 200-tól 300 MHz-ig terjedő grafikus mag és memória órajelük lesz.
Noha a chip még el sem készült, a www.golem.de német weboldal máris konkurenseként említi az ATI M10 és az nVidia NV34M jelű grafikus chipjét, amelyeket hivatalosan ugyan még nem jelentettek be, de annyit már tudni lehet róluk, hogy csak 4 renderelő pipeline-nal fognak rendelkezni és a DeltaChrome-hoz képest sokkal több áramra lesz szükségük. Egyelőre tehát az S3 Graphics-nak kell lépnie, hiszen az ATI és az nVidia e piaci szegmensben már nyeregben érezheti magát. Hogy a pozíciójuk megrendül-e, az már az S3-on múlik. Az elmúlt évek tapasztalatai alapján nyugodtan állíthatjuk, a viadal végkimenetele nem a chipek árán (ha csak azon múlna, az S3 már rég piacvezető lenne), sokkal inkább a teljesítményen és a minőségen múlik. A tényleges szállításról nem is beszélve...
Ajjaj...már ők is kezdik az "ez még nem kell" szöveget?!
Na ne má'! -
#67
Miért aggódsz a driverek miatt? Hisz Young megmondta, hogy ezek most jók lesznek... 
Egyébként teljesen igazad van, és az a driver dolog különösen az S3-nál egy elég érzékeny pont. Szegény Savage3D meg Savage2000...
Régebben az S3 nem high-end, hanem ikább olcsó és megbízható kártyákat csinált. Persze az S3Trio idejében még nem igazán lehetett high-end-ről meg low-end-ről beszélni, hacsak az nem számított annak, hogy egy kártya fél vagy egy megás volt-e... :-)
Ja, 1995-ben az S3 elnyerte "a világ legnagyobb chipgyártó cége" díjat, tehát anno nem volt olyan lenézett, mint manapság. Apropó lenézés. Tegnap keresgéltem a Columbiáról valami újat, de helyette az Anandtech-en találtam egy cikket a Savage2K-ról. Meg kellett állapítanom, hogy ennél seggnyalóbb cikket még soha sem láttam. Benyaltak a meleg szarig az Nvidiának, már elnézést a kifejezésért. Akkoriban jelent meg az üdvöske, a GF256 és mivel a S2K erős konkurrenciát jelentett (ráadásul bugosan is klasszisokkal jobb), ezért a kedves, jóságos Anandtech-es fiúk mindent elkövettek, hogy szanaszét cincálják, sárba döngöljék a ViperII-őt. Tisztára mint egy véresszájú komcsi propaganda, elképesztő. Még arra is vetemedtek -felrúgva az ellenpropaganda íratlan szabályait: elferdíteni mindent, de nem hazudni, mert az aláássa az egészet-, hogy nyíltan olyat írjanak -persze tehették ezt még akkor, hisz a hivatalos megjelenés elött írtak róla és aki olvasta, az biztos nem vett utána Viper-t, tehát nem derült ki-, ami egyszerűen hazugság.
Ezt csak azért írom, mert már jó régóta a legtöbb oldal heveny gyűlölettel viseltetik az S3 iránt, általam teljességgel ismeretlen okból (nem is kell messze menni, hisz az interjút, amit beraktam, már több "vágott" változatban is láttam, és érdekes módon mindenhol azok a részek maradtak ki, ahol az Nvidia került szóba, ráadásul nem állhatták meg, hogy oda ne szúrjanak valami gonoszat a végére, a SavageNews esetében pl. azt, hogy a SavageXP tesztpéldányai egy kupac szart se érnek, drivereikkel egyetemben. Persze ennek semmi köze a DeltaChrome-hoz, de hát azért mégiscsak le kellett valamivel hangolni a jónépet... Na, szóval ilyenekről beszélek.). Az odáig oké, hogy egyik tesztmagazin/oldal sem elfogulatlan -ó, azok a jó kis szponzorpénzek...-, de ha S3-ról írnak, akkor általában megfigyelhető egyfajta gyűlölködő stílus, szinte már fröcsögnek, és tényleg nem értem miért.
Ez sem könnyítette meg soha a dolgukat.
Nem vagyok járatos Ati ügyekben, lehet, hogy ott is ugyanígy megy a sárdobálás az Nvidia részéről (vagy fordítva), de az S3 mindig is különösen fekete bárány volt. -
Borg #66 Én azt vágom, hogy a deltachrome jobb lesz mint a bladexp, ez tény.
Csak éppen ez nem fog segiteni a driver problémákon, ott meg lehet akármennyi pénzt beleölni.
A rossz driverek akármilyen jó kártyát kinyirnak, lásd pl a 8500as radeon első hónapja... annyira ratyi driverek voltak, hogy a gef3at nemt tudta leelőzni, és tiszta bug volt minden. 1 év kellett neki, de szerencsére mára már bug sincs, és a teljesitmény is a ti4200 körül van...
Szal nagyon szoftver kérdéses lesz ez a dolog...
Egyébként, nekem is már a trident 256k-s videokártyák óta van dolgom ezekkel, és az S3 sosem alkotott túl nagyot, ami a high ednet illeti. Volt egykét workstation kártyája, meg fejlesztései, de tisztán emléxem mikor kijött valami újfajta S3 anno, valami GX mittoménmilyen jelzéssel, hogy ennyi meg annyi mhz, stb, aztán az akkor 1 éves TSENG ET6000 simán lepipálta:) (fel is gyújtották a gyárát, pedig szerintem elég nagy videokártya gyártó lenne azóta) -
Borg #63 Hát, a bladeXPn már driver sem segit hidd el.
Egyébként a Tridentnek és a VIAnak is ugyanannyi a tapasztalata és a hirneve a VGA kategóriában. Vagyis egyenlő nullával.
Régen voltak jó kártyáik (bár S3nak kevésbé..:) de a mai modern VGA konkurrencia harcot aligha veszik fel. Kijön a kártya jó jó, de mire megfelelő drivereket irnak ennyi tapasztalattal... -
Borg #61 Ez mind szép és jó, de nézt csak meg mit igért a Trident a BladeXPre.
Abban is sokkal kevesebb tranyó mellett igértek 9700as szintű teljesitményt, aztán még csak meg sem közeliti...
Szal lehet variálni, de azért a fizika törvényeit áthágni nem nagyon. Szép szép, hogy kevesebből akarják, de egyátalán nem biztos ezzel elérik amit akarnak. -
[Walaki]D`Lair #60 Én akkorse veszek ilyet...Nem akarok megint szopni a szar driverekkel... -
#59
Talán ez majd tisztáz néhány dolgot:
S3 Graphics Interview
January 17, 2003
With a lot of buzz and many questions out there about DeltaChrome, I posed some questions to S3 Graphic's Young Kwon, who was glad to answer them.
Savage2k: Your recent announcement of DeltaChrome marks the first time that the new joint venture has entered back into the competitive graphics market. Is S3 Graphic's aim to compete with the larger firms or to find its own niche market?
Young: To clarify, the DC is the first time that the JC will try out the desktop market. As you know we have been holding our own in Mobile and actually we have carefully built a reputation for high quality mobile graphics processors in the top tier notebook OEM market. As for the desktop market reentry, we definitely intend to compete with the big boys since the backing of VIA makes us a formidable contender. You may know that Ati is having trouble making profit and Nvidia is having to pay a very large staff in Silicon Valley with their respective large paychecks. S3G is now spreadout globally and a lot of our intensive work (not the design) is done overseas. So as far as business is concerned, we should be more than competitive. Of course we intend to give the customers unique features such as HDTV integration on top of high performance GFX, you may call this niche but my guess is that it will become mainstream.
Savage2k: Would you say DeltaChrome will compete with current/upcoming DX9 products in terms of price and/or performance? Will time of release be a factor?
Young: For Mobile, we will be the only DX9 8-pipe solution. The competitors' parts will be 4-pipe. We will definitely have the edge in 3D performance and we intend to be cost competitive. For desktop, the answer is that we will be performance competitive but our inherent smaller die size will give us the cost advantage. Our timing is a bit later than the others in the desktop area, but our Asian channels through VIA will give us the upper hand in marketing the product.
Savage2k: Will S3 Graphics/VIA be retailing boards with DeltaChrome yourselves, or have any board vendors expressed interest in the chip?
Young: At present we don't intend to retail our selves since there are existing board partners that we are working with and the arrangements seem to be working well. Many board vendors have expressed interest in the DC product after our announcement. Some surprising! It seems that Nvidia has not been treating their board 'partners' well and what goes around comes around....
Savage2k: There has been some confusion over what the final clock/memory core speeds will be. Can you give us a target speed?
Young: All I can say now about this is that the middle clock/core speeds will be 300/300. I'll definately keep you posted.
Savage2k: S3 Graphics/VIA hold a substantial chunk of the notebook/mobile market, and we really have never found desktop-quality graphics on laptops. Do you believe DeltaChrome can deliver that and do you see any competition for DeltaChrome in that area?
Young: The mobile market is far more rigourous than most people realize. You can always stuff a bigger engine in a desktop chip and get away with that. In mobile, you gotta get more performance with less power and higher reliability AND better support. Software support and bug turnaround for top tier mobile customers will make even the workaholic cringe. So naturally, the pace of development for mobile 3D performance has always followed. With the DC, we intend to change that. The DC was actually designed for mobile from the beginning. It is not a cut down version of a desktop chip. It has fantastic advances in power savings that a desktop chip could never achieve. I'll delince from mentioning details since we intend to patent some of these features. I'll tell you that our goal of idle power, which is the most important metric for mobile GFX, is less than 0.5W. This is an incredible feat that we managed in our previous generation part. In contrast our competitors cut down desktop parts are double or even triple that figure. Bottom line, in mobile DC will give you everything! Including 3D performance to rival the latest desktop DX9 chips.
Savage2k: What kind of power consumption can we expect from the mobile versions of the core?
Young: Our figures are 3.5W peak and 0.5W idle. Check out the competition numbers.
Savage2k: What is the transistor count of the core?
Young: This is confidential but we are significantly less than the Ati 9700 pro and NV30.
Savage2k: Other companies have tried their hand at various z-occulling techniques, how does S3's Advanced Deferred Rendering differ, and what kind of performance can be expected of it?
Young: We not only have front to back culling, we have back to front culling! Because we delay render, smart decisions can be made before actually rendering objects. Also, we have course-Z (hieretical-Z), and other techniques to improve the overall efficiency. I don't know how to specify what the performance of our techniques will be at this moment. Let me get back to you after I confer with my 3D guy.
Savage2k: DeltaChrome has many new video features, such as per-pixel deinterlacing and HDTV output. VIA has recently become very aggressive in persuing set-top box and multimedia solutions. Are there any plans for integrated versions of DeltaChrome in VIA boards?
Young: Yes.
Savage2k: AlphaChrome/SavageXP was announced a while back, but we have heard little about the core since. Are there going to be any announcements for products using that core?
Young: Not really, we have decided to concentrate on the DC sometime ago. For example, the press releases that I write take a lot of time and energy and I just don't have the bandwidth!
Savage2k: With the S3/VIA joint venture underway, what changes should we expect in terms of direction will S3 take in the future?
Young: You will see much better support than in the past. For example we have increased our software staff 200% overseas to support customers in recent months. VIA is a big, profitable company. With their backing many things become possible that is not possible for some smaller guys.
Savage2k: One major complaint in the past was driver support. How will the new unified driver set help out in that regard and has VIA helped out in this area?
Young: As I stated, I think you will be pleased at the support from our new organization. Of course unified drivers mean that we can concentrate our efforts and simplifiy the code. You probably don't know this but in the mobile world we are known for our software quality. Yes, I know there are lingering complaints about S2K drivers, this is when S3 was exiting the desktop market. It makes sense. For mobile we are the best. This is why customers like IBM and Toshiba choose us. Moving foreward, we intend to give desktop the same level of quality. Give us a chance.
Savage2k: Thank you very much for your time, and we hope to hear more from you in the future.
Ty Butler
Editor-in-Chief
Na, tehát ezek szerint biztos lesz belőle kártya. Ez már egy jó pont.
A másik dolog, ami feltűnt, az az a dolog, amiről lentebb írtam (a cikket csak tegnap olvastam, tehát nincs összefüggés!): Technikai fejlődés! Ha mindaz, amit Young állít igaz, akkor végre valaki kitörni látszik a "fejlesszünk kártyát úgy, hogy belepumpálunk még x millió tranzisztort, oszt' megtoldjuk egy tápkábellel" irányvonalból, és mérnöki munkával, technológiával akar elérni teljesítménynövekedést, nem a most divatos módszerrel. -
[Walaki]D`Lair #58 Mondtam hogy én is láttam már mind a 2-t....Nem győzött meg a látvány...nem volt szarabb annyival... -
#57
:)) -
#56
Miért lennének kamuk a képek? Mert nagyméltóságú Laalee azt mondta? :D Komolyan. Néha olyanok tudtok lenni...
És mégis honnan szedtem volna? A kamunvidiaképek.com-ról? :D
Arról van szó, hogy nekem legalább megvan az összehasonlítási alapom a két kártyáról, mivel az egyik gépben a ViperII, a másikban meg az MX400 ketyeg, így nekem nem kell a levegőbe beszélnem, mint a Laalee féléknek...
De kérlek, ahogy gondolod. -
[Walaki]D`Lair #54 Igen, de kb ugyanannyi áramot vesz föl....Kamu képek + nem kellenek.... -
#53
eheh...
Csak épp az a különbség kettőnk közt, hogy nekem itt figyel minkét kártya, bármikor letesztelhetem. Azt meg mondjuk erősen kétlem, hogy te valaha is láttál már S2K-t élőben...
Tehát nekem itt vannak a tények, neked meg legfeljebb a kamu duma jut. Kamu képek helyett. ;-)
De csak rajta, bátran... :D -
#52
Igen, csakhogy a HDD-ben van egy elektromotor, mozgó alkatrészek, a videókártyákra meg tudtommal még nem szereltek winchestert.
Hát nem tudom hogy tetszene-e, ha az pl. egeret nem csak a gépbe, hanem a konnektorba is be kéne dugnod. Vagy esetleg egy hangkártya, amit házi trafóval kéne működtetni...
Mit szólnál a generátoros hálókártyához? ;-)
A Boeing már készíti módosított turbináit a legújabb videókártyákhoz/processzorokhoz...
A lényeg persze a technikai fejlődés. A miniatürizáció. Minden egyre kisebb lesz, egyre kevesebb hőt termel, egyre kifinomultabb. Ebbe a videóvezérlők is beletartoznak, hát nem? Azok is egyre kisebbek és kifinomultabbak...